All NASCAR needs to do is....

[racerx11]

take a look at Joes moms reaction to the big one to realize restrictor plates are not the answer. I'm getting a little sick of this crap. We all knew it was coming. I was pretty scared for Nemochek for a min or two. Thank god everyone is ok. We were lucky one more time.

[FANOF5]

there is not much more NASCAR can do for DAYTONA or DEGA, other then put in padded walls..............even with restrictors, they are still averaging 185.............Joe must of hit at about 140-150...............i thinks the HANS did its job......................pretty sad to see Joe's mom though:( :(

[rajflyboy]

fanof5


I guess you havent watched racing all that long!

These guys are driving as slow as they were in 1965 !!

They need to speed the cars up to around 200 ish and make it harder for the drivers to get so bunched up .

They need to bring back the Slingshot. That was great big track racing !!!! Nothing like days of Cale Yarborough Slingshot !!!

[FANOF5]

i have been watching racing for over a decade and i understand that restrictors bunch the car up...........but NASCAR is not going to speed these cars back up, because on restarts, even without restrictors, they will still be bunched up for a few laps, NASCAR would rather have them bunched up at 185, then 205...............my point is, the only other safety device that could of helped Joe out was padded walls................i am not a total moron when it comes to racing!

[paul]

Are you sure?

You called that an "awesome race".

[FANOF5]

i enjoy DAYTONA and DEGA.......have you looked at my profile???????????????? my favorite track is DAYTONA...............again, it is all about opinions................i don't have to dislike a race because everyone else does...............i get frustrated when i feel that i have to go along with everyone else...............I LOVED TONIGHTS RACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i was excited the whole time

[Awesome_Bill]

NO injuries??? I guess Bensons cracked ribs arent counted as "injuries".

[DE Wrangler 2]

Fano5 unrestricting the cars will allow the cars to have their full horsepower and make them faster........but, like any other track on the circuit they will HAVE to lift on the accellerator entering the turns. Now the don't have to lift because they are not going anywhere near the speed that requires lifting with the banking at the Dega and Daytona. Flat footed all the way around!! The reason they can't afford to lift is because of horsepower diffiency (restrictor plates). Something happens and they have to stay in the throttle to be competitive.........recipe for big wreck!! Unrestricted they could have the power to remain competitive and still lift in the turns!! They don't wreck like they do at Daytona and Dega at California.........and they run nearly the same speeds!! CA.........24 degrees Dega.......34!! Make sense?

[rajflyboy]

hmmmm going 185 on a 2 and a half mile track is safe ...but going 190 ish on a mile and a half track is safe too????


the cars go faster on much smaller track and no one mentions the speed there?

If you look at nascar back in the 80's you will see that there were very little serious injuries !!! Most of the deaths came post restrictor plate and not before !!!!

Cars are rediculously slow if you ask me! They should be going 205 ish !!! No doubt about it !!!!

[FANOF5]

i get it............... but why is it a big deal that i liked tonights race???????????????

[PettyBenson]

Originally posted by Awesome_Bill
NO injuries??? I guess Bensons cracked ribs arent counted as "injuries".
I belive those are injuries have you ever had a cracked rib i do belive it hurts alot, and if it was the same ribs he broke at richmond then more than likely he will be out of the car again for a few races.

[paul]

Originally posted by FANOF5
i get it............... but why is it a big deal that i liked tonights race???????????????

It's not a big deal. Lots of NASCAR fans like wreck fests. That's why there are restrictor plates on the cars - to give them the wreck fests.

You don't seriously believe the garbage the announcers are paid to tell you about plates do you? When we see these races end up like this every single time, and then have people like Jeff Hammond blame it all on the drivers for being to "racey" it makes me sick.

[FANOF5]

i don't like to see wrecks!!!!!!!!!!! never have, wrecks=injuries, and yes pettybenson4510, i cracked two ribs in a soccer game and it took a long time to heal.................

[DE Wrangler 2]

No more Jeff Hammond for rest of season Paul!!:beerchug:

[paul]

I'll drink to that Wrangler...


but...the first round is on you. :)

[Tabasco]

But they have to do something. Take off the plates and everyone will be doing 220. The cars in the 60's were made out of better stuff(metal). Look at the hood on a '72 Monte Carlo and the 2002. More area to absorb the impacts. They have to take away some of the downforce.

[Awesome_Bill]

Take away the plates and Elliott would dominate again...I would luv to see that.

[Tabasco]

No he wouldn't everyone would be running the same speed. 220. Bill's days of dominating are long gone.

[Awesome_Bill]

You think so Tabasco?? How many other drivers still around today have expierence running at 220 and who knows if they would run 220 230 210 or what??

[racerx11]

Some of these young kids are fearless. Bill is not the only one with guts. Just for the record, I'm as about as big an Elliott fan as you will meet. When Bill set the record, he had a superior aero package.

[chuck]

Imagine a car going into the grandstands
at about 210 mph

[Awesome_Bill]

Fortuanatley i cant imagine that chuck.

[LooneyToonRacer]

I think the only way to stop all this is to get rid of some of the plate races, removing the plates could be too dangerous, going 210-230 in a crash is not a good thing and the HANS devise will not help as much at those speeds, and DW idea of making the cars less aerodynamic and more boxie might slow them down but will still bunch them up at the plate races. I don't know about you but alot of those truck races are wrecks also it seems like to me. IMO

[HardScrabble]

Forget about the 220 or 230 or even 220 MPH stuff. It ain't gonna happen, end of story. The insurers have decreed it, and if a car should get into the stands, NASCAR would cease to exist. And be aware that plates have pondered for use at both Texas and Atlanta because of the speeds, it just might happen soon too.

Without a stopwatch or TV to tell you, I doubt that many can tell the diff between a car running 170 and a car running 200 from the stands anyway. And I guarantee ya can't tell the difference watching on TV.

The cars must be made to overpower the grip of the tires. ANd the speeds must be kept below the 200 MPH mark.

Windsor has good ideas about the engine rules that could be used. Smaller engines basically and he can explain much better than I can. The downforce has to be lessened and in order to do this aero changes will be necessary. Once the cars overpower the grip, the drivers will have to lift and once they lift thsoe teams able to utilize best the engine package and chasiis setup will be able to break the draft. You will still have drfting, but the packs will be reduced in size. Much more like the earlier days of both Daytona and Talledega.

It is not a simple thing to do, and there would be much politicing against it. If it was simple it would be done. It will not be cheap for the teams either.

Perhaps the biggest factor working against the change now is the simple fact that way too many fans, whetehr many of us count ourselves amonst them or not, love the pack racing and the danger and the "big ones". Suggestion as to how to fix them are welcome. Beats the hell out of me.

[Windsor377]

HardScrabble,

If you don't mind, I'll repost a comment I put on aother board to a question regarding plates vs smaller engines. What I didn't touch on was "un-gluing" the cars. Small tires, less wing, physicall bigger cars for the plate tracks...take your pick(s). BUt here's my earlier comments:

"Whats the difference between a plate and a smaller engine? The result would be the same - less power to pass and more reliance on the draft. "

Excellent question WesternAuto17. On the there may not seem to be any difference. But, if you dig a little deeper, you can begin to see the differences.

I like the old saying, "there is more than one way to skin a cat". Engine guys think the same way. Drivers and chassis guys do to. Looking at the whole package for any given track, some combinations might put emphasis on on pulling right out of the corners, others might want more straightaway speed, others want want something in between.

Given an "open" engine of any size and CR these options are available and used by various teams from track to track. But when these teams go to a plate track the options are thrown out the window. The plate is a curious and frustrating contraption. At high rpm, the engine thinks it running at Mile High (advanced ignition, bassakwards intake to exhaust side valve timing in conjunction with killer inatke runner cross sections all trying to maintain some semblance of volumetric effeciency (VE)...which is nothing but a loosing battle. BUT at low rpm, the very same engines have very high VE...AND at all rpm ranges VERY poor throttle response. The engines are god awfully expensive turds.

But the worst thing is, EVERYBODY has the exact same torque curve shape, because no matter your philosophy the plate decapitates the torque curve at the same place well before the power curve can take it's shape...which contributes to the dreaded packs.

The little engines, even with reduced CR will reflect the varioius philosophies of the various teams. You'll see it all play out by some cars powering off the corner and others powering down the straight and combos in between. In my mind, mixing that with Full Sized cars at the "plate tracks" will contribute to better racing, with all the teams employing different approaches to the solution (win).

In all actuality, I'd really rather see the banks knocked down....but I don't think that will ever happen.

Hope this helps stir some thought.

Windsor

[racer8]

The cars of the sixtys and seventys were bricks as far as areo goes compared to today. I think what windsor is saying is that even if Nascar mandated 4 cylinder engines for these tracks, these teams would still figure how the make them run these super areo cars at 180 plus. IT would still be the same WFO racing and bunched up cars. Just strictly my opinion but if they have to lift that will break up the tight packs and lowering the banking to say 24 degrees might help.:beerchug:

[pettyfan4life]

nascar needs to lose the plates without the plates they would not be bunched up like they are now and then they would not have the big one

[HardScrabble]

Thanks Windsor, exactly the info looking for.

Since we can pretty much assume that the banks will not be coming down, the combination aero/smaller engine solution seems the most viable. IMO.

Both would have to be used and Goodyear would also need to be involved to work out the proper tire to bring the whole deal together.

[rajflyboy]

Many of you are forgetting the days of the slingshot!

That was the best racing ever in Nascar! Period End Of Story!

Bill Elliott had superior engines back in the 80's! It wasn't so much his aero package (although the thunderbird had good aero)!

Ernie Elliott found out that Ford Engine blocks made in Brazil were better than the ones made in Cleveland. The Elliotts bought every last one of them and they had a big time Horsepower advantage!

More Speed would not hurt anything! It would make the cars harder to drive and definately widen the pack!

Nascar drivers have always flat footed the Daytona Track going all the way back to when it was built! The difference back then was that you could let off the throttle and then get back on it and not lose a ton of positions. With the restrictor plates you just can't let off the throttle or else your going all the way to the back!